BEHDINAN – PAJK Coordination Member Ayten Dersim participated in the Xwebûn program broadcast on Jin TV, presented by Arjin Baysal. Speaking about the 30th anniversary of the women’s army, Ayten Dersim pointed out that there were many difficulties until this stage.
PAJK Coordination Member Ayten Dersim’s comments published on Jin TV are as follows:
We are celebrating the 30th anniversary of the free women’s army. How did the autonomous army come to your agenda? Why did you need an autonomous army?
Nothing in history was built suddenly. After all, everything has a basis. There have been various resistances in our history. Maybe not like the women’s army, but women have always had a place in war and struggle. There is one characteristic of the Middle East, especially the Kurds, that they are warriors. Of course there is a basis for this. Because there is always occupation, denial. The Kurds have always tried to protect themselves.
When the PKK was founded, the Leadership investigated all revolutions. We investigated the presence of women in these revolutions. Women took part in many wars, but they never formed an independent army. Everything was done for the nation. That is, first we will be nationalists, we will liberate our country; other things should be left until after the revolution.
In other words, a solution to the basic problems of women was not considered.
There was no approach towards women’s identity, women’s will, and women’s consciousness. For example, there is no such autonomous army in the real socialism program. He has special words about women; As if the society cannot be saved if the woman is not saved. These determinations are correct, but they could not organize as women, they could not manage their own identities by their own will.
The Neolithic Age was lived before the Sumerians. There is also a process before the Neolithic period. These processes did not happen suddenly. So history is not like a straight line that goes on and on. For example, they say that there is the primitive period, then the feudal period, then the capitalist period, then communism.
The leadership changed this view of history with its new paradigm. The leadership says, “Not all societies are slaves because societies have always resisted.” Look at feudal society, for example, but not all societies are feudal, there were also societies that lived communally. For example, they say capitalist society. These definitions are wrong. Because when you say that society is capitalist, there is no struggle there. But if you look at the period in which capitalism developed, you will see that there are different societies. For example, there are also system oppositions such as tribal, communal, family societies. The leadership studied them and did not carry the current revolutions to our revolution, but took what we really needed according to our geography.
For example, we, as the Kurdish community, were occupied, denied, massacres were committed against us. When the PKK was just established, Kurdish society looked at women differently. For example, when they went to the public meeting, they saw that not only men came, but also women. The society saw that the approaches, attitudes and stances of Kemal Pir, Haki Karer and Mazlum Doğan were very different. The PKK did not deny social values and was not built on this denial. He saw the reaction and determined that it belonged to the state, not society. He criticized everything and instead developed an alternative. Heval Sakine Cansız organized meetings for women in many cities. Two women took part in the First Congress; One is Comrade Sakine (Sakine Cansız), the other is Fatma (Kesire Yıldırım).
The charter says that women should also take part in this revolution. This is a historic step. Women were brave, they took risks. They were now organized in the community and formed self-defense units, though not exactly like that. They were taking action against people who were collaborating with the state. Because Kurdistan was occupied. You cannot liberate society just by doing political and social work. At that time, the majority of students were women. For us, this is not a measure, but it is also important. At that time, women could not be comfortable due to feudalism, but they still participate in the work. With the September 12 coup, there are arrests. Many women attend, come to Botan, come to Dersim. There has been only one female friend in a unit for a long time. He stays alone for months. If those friends are not in that consciousness, it will not be possible to manage. What they know and believe is that Kurdistan has been invaded. The leadership followed all of this. He was talking on the radio, on the phone, one by one, asking questions.
At that time, hundreds of women participated in the armed struggle; Why was there a need for a different organization? I mean, they were struggling as women, they were in this movement as women, but why did they need autonomy?
This is our difference. The leadership says that women have participated in all revolutions but have not been independent. With our struggle, we see that women are taking their place in the army.
For thousands of years, we see that the army belongs to the states. For example, he says that war requires a strong physique, that you must be rude, that you must be reckless, that you must be cunning. Then women need to organize independently, not resemble men’s traits, and be their own.
The other, the Leadership, wanted to balance the violence that existed in the army. So war is not violence, it is defensive. The leadership also says, “If the revolution develops, it develops only with women. Because society exists with women. Women should lead the revolution.” The woman had to defend herself physically and mentally. One of the reasons for being autonomous is because women believe in themselves. Until then, women trusted men. They thought the revolution belonged to men. But the Leadership changed this mentality. In 1993, the Leadership said, “Be united even if you are 5 people.” Get together, get to know each other. Otherwise, the army was never formed so suddenly.
What did you aim for at that time? You formed your own army but did not treat it as just war? Was the issue of men’s liberation one of your goals?
All this did not happen at once. Because there was no deep consciousness. The first participation was for the liberation of Kurdistan. As women, we did not have the idea to participate, to liberate women, to liberate society with women. The Leadership developed all of these. That’s why we call this movement the Leadership movement. Of course, a lot of pain was experienced by both men and women. For example, men made fun of women and did not trust them. “You can’t camp without us, you can’t go to war, you can’t take action”; they said, “You can’t live without us”. There were also backwardnesses in the movement in terms of consciousness. Women also experienced contradictions. They were not very confident.
The meeting of women started in Botan. They were having difficulties, but they said, “Since the leadership has given us this perspective, we must succeed, we don’t need a man.” After the establishment of the women’s army, women began to take action themselves. They blocked the roads, set traps, attacked the enemy. After thousands of years when women were ignored, such a development was a revolution in itself. But they also went through a lot of pain within themselves. After all, you suffer for freedom. They were cleaning all the slave, back and dirty sides.
We have full confidence in our leadership. The Leadership always asked us: “You’re far from men, aren’t you? Are you self-sufficient? Do you take your meetings, trainings, see your training? Do you criticize each other? Do not believe in men. True, they are guerrilla, revolutionary, but neither they nor you have overcome your past. Male dominated stance, female slave stance. When they come together, they will subdue you.” After 1993, the Leadership said that free and equal committees should be established in Botan, Dersim and Amed. When there was a problem, he said, “Let the commission fix it”. This committee consisted of both men and women. So even then there was equal representation.
Men could not make decisions alone. Female guerrillas have a different majesty. You have units, you explore, you take action, you make decisions. You may not have enough numbers to seize a police station, but here too the importance of ideology comes into play. Aim; is an independent, autonomous organization. It is strategic, it is philosophical, it is ideological. We are not like other revolutions in this respect. Not that we dislike or deny them. As I said at the beginning, we acted on the legacy and experiences of both their and our history. The men did not believe us, they said that you cannot live autonomously, that our camps will be destroyed, that we cannot take action on our own. Because in their mentality, women always need men. They grew up with this idea in families and schools. When they join the organization, Our mission is to save Kurdistan. After liberating Kurdistan, they thought, we’re done.
Were they not accepting their independence because it would be lost?
The leadership already says, ‘I developed the women’s movement’. The woman did not immediately understand either; went through deep developmental pains. The men did not accept this either. They struggled a lot until they accepted. They still cannot accept it personally, they are jealous; They say, “Why does the leadership value women so much?” There is jealousy, hypocrisy in the character of the man. We don’t treat our boyfriends as bad. It is on this date. We have an army, a party, and a partnership in organization, but we also have a gender struggle. Because we are talking about a 5,000-year-old persecution.
You established the women’s army in the mountains, but it was not limited to YJA Star. In all parts of Kurdistan, women were organized as YPJ, HPJ. What impact did your movement have?
True, the women’s movement is not limited to the mountains. The women’s army was established in 1993, it also affected society. Hundreds of women joined the army. The Leadership then said, “As a guerrilla, you are now a model of a free society.” Indeed, we have reached that level.
Kurdistan was divided into four parts. In every part, of course, the Kurds will defend themselves. Rojhilat women gained strength from YJA Star. Because a belief is built. It also applies to Rojava. If we are talking about the defense of a country, women will take the lead. Women organized very quickly in Rojava.
From where? Because YJA Star, PAJK, KJK had an experience. This legacy was enough for the women of Rojava. With the fight against ISIS, their identities became universal. YJA Star and HPG guerrillas came to the aid of our people in Shengal. When Yazidi women saw YJA Star and HPG, they saw the importance of organizing. Kurdish society cannot be liberated without defending itself, that is, without defense. This has now been proven. At the moment, all states want us to be limited to the mountains and not to affect the society.